Mathworks: it's time for a dark theme.
Antonello Zito
on 14 Mar 2022
Latest activity Reply by Alexander Price
on 27 Dec 2024 at 18:49
This is not a question, but a point of discussion for the entire community. I am aware that every 1/2 months this theme comes out, but until this is not fixed it is totally necessary that this comes, indeed, out. And I said "fix" because Mathworks has to understand that a dark theme is not only a visual/aesthetic matter, it is a substantial part of the game. Most of the OS, GUIs, programs are actually in dark mode, and a vast majority of the users makes indeed use of a global dark mode. How much one does like it is personal, but the benefits to power savings and eye health is instead a fact. Mathworks being ignoring this for years is nothing but ridiculous. Of course it is not an easy task, but every minute of committment for it is worthy. And nope, Schemer is not helpful because it does not provide a real fix to this question.
I feel free to suggest something similar to the Spyder's dark theme, which came out like 2 years ago if I remember correctly.
Of course, my point is not being disrespectful (I am instead very respectful to the huge efforts of Mathworks for making this wonderful program run). But, form a user's point of view, the fact that not a single word has so far come out from Mathworks about a dark theme (meaning that for sure we will not see it in a timing of months) requires us to put a strong pressure on this.
Mathworks, please: it's time for a dark theme.
109 Comments
A basic principle is "you must have it, but I can choose not to use it." Offering users the choice between light and dark modes is a fundamental aspect of a company's care and respect for its users. Clearly, MathWorks does not care about their users' feelings.
TMW listens to the opinions of the majority that have common characteristics! If a particular aspect can indeed enhance the user experience, and we emphasize that it must benefit the vast majority of users, then TMW will consider integrating it as a built-in feature. However, if an idea is not mature, untested, or does not align with the subjective product development plan, TMW can choose not to adopt it, which is perfectly normal! After all, successful software must meet the usability and flexibility requirements of the vast majority of people!
I am also looking forward to communicating with the official TMW staff; it always excites me! Being a part of TMW is an unforgettable experience!
Clearly MATLAB DOES care about users' feelings. How do I know? Because they brought me and several other power users to their headquarters in Natick Massachussetts last week for two days of intensive discussions about how to make MATLAB better for users.
I've never met a group of software developers more more caring, more generous, and more interested in listening to users. We participated in discussions of how to make MATLAB, and the MATLAB web site, better. And this is not the first time they've done it and won't be the last. They have a continuing program for listening to users that covers many aspects.
- They read ALL comments sent in from the ratings in the documentation (at the bottom of the help page for each function).
- They read the Answers posts.
- They read all email messages sent into support.
- They take suggestions on the help call number.
- They hold numerous usability sessions with end users testing out new features for MATLAB and the MATLAB CENTRAL web site.
- Sometimes you see popups on the web site asking you for information about how you use MATLAB and the web site.
- They have "ambassadors" at universities helping students adopt and learn MATLAB.
- They have programs to help startup companies succeed.
- There is the "Community Advisory Board", of which I'm a member, whos purpose is to have our ear in the community (Answers, Cody, File Exchange, etc.) and relay concerns and suggestions from users who may not know how to get them more directly to the Mathwork developers. We also preview new features and give suggestions for improvement.
- They will be doing new things to make it easier and better for content creators to submit content and participate in the community.
As you've seen there is already a dark mode available for preview and will soon be part of the official releases. They've been working on it for years. It's not something where the suggestion comes in and in a few months later it's out there in the next release. It's not like that with any new feature and certainly not something as complicated as a dark mode.
That sounds sweet! I've never actually been to the Natick MathWorks headquarters, and it's something I'd like to do.
But I've done some other MW community/user things. Attended the "MAB" MathWorks Advisory Board conferences a few times. Done video interviews with MW's Usability Research folks and their engineers. Written surveys and other interactions, including some very long MW Support tickets. And they're serious about this. Like, at MAB, I ran in to the head product manager for Matlab, and they took the time to have a good long chat with me about my use cases and opinions.
IMHO, MathWorks really does listen to their users. It's just that for a huge product with a huge (and serious) user base like Matlab, that's like steering an aircraft carrier. Changing direction takes time, and you want to think about it a bit before you do it.
You can get most of the way there with Schemer (or manually editing interface colors) since over a decade. So Mathworks is actually offering you more choice than just light or dark mode. In addition to this, Mathworks is working on a new GUI design that will allow a more consistent dark theme.
There is enough valid criticism you can have against Mathworks, but this is simply not it. If you have a strong opinion, please make sure to back it up with strong facts as well.
install CareUEyes app turn dark mode(MagicX) on matlab session , worked for me but this temp way not fixing anything...
hope you like it.
yeap as i said it is not solution, even this methods has disadvantages, such as reducing the quality of textures or color inversion but good for people who cares about their sight.
This is similar to the method I've been using for years, though I think it's worth pointing out that there are drawbacks to inverting the display (or selected windows), depending on what sort of tasks you do in MATLAB.
That said, I've been doing it so long that I almost get confused when see non-inverted syntax highlighting.
That is factually incorrect. You have a preference, and apparently that is shared by those around you.
I also prefer a dark theme, but at least I have the humility to know that my preference isn't universal truth.
Your claim that every single developer prefers it isn't actually proof. I personally know a dev who prefers dark mode for once language and light mode for another. So even if I take you literally, you're wrong.
@Douglas What a convincing argument. Now you've completely convinced me. /s
What exactly is the point of your comment? You don't explain in what sense a dark theme is better. There are rare cases where a dark theme is objectively better, but in the overwhelming majority of the cases it is simply preference.
Dark theme is better.
Dark Theme in MATLAB is here! It's in beta, but its here!
Heck yeahhhh, time to hit that Download button and start filing minor bug reports.
Thanks for making this happen! I can't tell you how many people will be excited about this.
I prefer dark theme because I do programing at night. aside from the eye strain it is nice to be able to look away from the screen and stil see things in low light.
With that, it should be pointed out that dark theme should be an option not maditory. Your tesla would more acuratly be that antonello wants the right to have a tessla. Mathworks says here are the parts, put it together. That is a far cry from everyone must have it. It's that, for a well designed program, it's a little strange that a dark theme hasn't been made. Especialy considering that Matlab has been around for decades.
Normally the idea that dark mode should be added as an option would go without saying, but it seems like some users have the sentiment that customization is bad and that everybody needs to be using the same settings. Bizairre.
OLED is more expensive and does not last as long, so is the lower cost of running black pixels important over the lifetime of the product?
especially when a great deal (even if it is not the proven majority) of the userbase is asking for it.
Is "a great deal of the userbase" asking for it? Or is there just a fragment that is being very vocal about it?
the bright white light strains your eyes (I know it does mine) and inhibits your sleep later
The problem is not white light: the problem is blue light. https://www.viewsonic.com/library/business/blue-light-filter-eye-strain/ . White light does include blue light, but Preferences -> MATLAB -> Colors -> MATLAB Colros PReferences -> Desktop tool colors. untick Use system colors and use a different background color. And set(groot, 'DefaultAxesColor', COLOR) so that you do not get white plot backgrounds. White light problem mostly solved.
I would also point out that if you are using MATLAB on your phone, that you would be using MATLAB Mobile, not MATLAB itself.
I think asking for proof for the arguments that started the thread is a bit of a weak defense argument.
Suppose that you lived in my city and you claimed that it was a "must have" for the city to convert all of its vehicles to Tesla, and you ranted about how much the city was letting down the residents by not already having switched to Tesla a few years ago. Would it really be so unreasonable for me to ask you to prove the "must" part? (I live in the second coldest "large" city in the world by the way.)
There actually is a cost to non-users of a feature: an engineer can only spend time once, so there is a limited number of features that can be implemented. Any feature you don't use still has to be created and might cause a feature you would have used from being created.
That being said, I am in favor of a proper dark mode. I just object to people crying wolf. If you have a medical reason (or even just a preference) for a dark background, you can already get most of the way there. So I just don't see why some people are acting as if they are being forced to stare right into a white on white screen at maximum brightness.
If you need to exaggerate your opinion, you are apparently not convinced it is that good of an argument.
The "this adds unnecesesary cost" argument doesn't really hold water when you consider that we're talking about a feature that's ubiquitous across text editors and IDEs. From Visual Studio and XCode down to small FOSS projects like Builder, Kate, and XFCE Mousepad, everything has a dark mode.
On the development side, you have to go out of your way NOT to support dark mode if you're using a modern UI API like WinUI3, SwiftUI, GTK4, Jetpack Compose, etc
wow, this was a fun read... and I mean the comments. I've been reading this kind of threads for years now and I too have been patiently and silently waiting for a dark mode. Why? Well, the quick answer is "because I like it". In the end, MATLAB, like most software out there, is a consumer-based product and "the consumer likes it" is more than enough reason to implement a feature. I must say the stubborness and close-mindedness of the MVPs that commented here is the thing that actually surprised me about this thread. And I mean no offense to them whatsoever. I've gotten so much help over the years reading their responses to several topics and I am really grateful. I do think, though, that a "if it's not broken, why fix it?" mentality is not what drives any kind of product forward, especially when a great deal (even if it is not the proven majority) of the userbase is asking for it. So I ask the skeptics: If the feature is there (for all those who do want it), how is that going to negatively affect you? I would think the answer is "in no way whatsoever". So, why push back against it?
Now, deepening a bit into the reasons for such a feature, I think asking for proof for the arguments that started the thread is a bit of a weak defense argument. Any quick internet search may yield different opinions about the topic regarding eye strain. But just think about you using your phone at night, or watching a movie late, even if you are not in bed, the bright white light strains your eyes (I know it does mine) and inhibits your sleep later. People then wonder why they suffer from insomnia. We've been using screens for less than a century so there's no way we have evolved to have such bright artificial lights in our faces day and night. Furthermore, many of the new screen technologies, such as AMOLED use less energy for darker colors, as developers explained early on with their "true-blacks". So that one is also a no-brainer.
Like I sad, no offense to anyone. On my side, I am still patiently waiting. In the meantime, I use schemer and I am happy working with it. But there is room for improvement in that front, and as a consumer, I would really like to see it implemented.
As someone who still stubbornly, spitefully expects apps to respond to GTK2 settings, I still gotta side with Rik. I was literally legally blind (20/400) and solved the problem without TMW needing to further reduce the app to an embedded web browser.
I have a hard time believing someone actually suffers from the light theme, but did not dig into the settings to adjust the colors to get fairly close to a dark theme. I just don't understand how those two things would go together.
100% my poor eyes are bleeding...
We (MathWorks) have removed the previous information in this Answer, origianlly posted by @Nicolai Lamp, because the instructions were about how to access the JSD software, which is still in beta stages, on our public site. If anyone wants more information about how to try out the JavaScript Desktop beta software, we'd love to engage with you directly. Please refer to @Michelle Hirsch's response below for information about how to participate in the beta.
Or you can sign up here and the team will reach out to you:
@Michelle Hirsch Thanks for the mention of the beta program, I didn't know that was an option. I just stumbled upon the flag somewhere online and thought it might be worth it to pass it on.
Good find, @Nicolai Lamp! We are very excited to have you and others try out the new desktop. But I'd like to ask that you go through our official channel of signing up for our beta. The directions we provide are a little easier and give a better experience. You'll get buttons right in the desktop to enable/disable the new desktop and to provide feedback. This feedback mechanism is especially important to us, so we know what's working well for you and what else you'd like to see.
Sign up here with the email address associated with your MathWorks accountand the team will reach out to you:
@cui Yes, the matlab documentation is by default installed & stored locally for offline referencing, it can be controlled in the settings weather or not it will search local or online documentation, so the documentation itself is not the issue, since that can just be opened in a browser with a darkmode plugin to adapt the colors.
While setting up default colors is indeed a bit involved for the casual user, getting 90% of the way there by using Matlab Schemer takes very little time and very little skill. Otherwise it is as simple as opening the settings dialog and picking colors you like.
I said the same about voice control, its a gimmick that doesn't generally work well and definitely not a must have, however for people who are visually impaired, any kind of voice control is a must have. For accessibility, it is like having the bumps on the pavement at a traffic light (here in the UK), no use to me, but vital for someone else.
I think the same applies here. I'm mildly dyslexic and dark mode really does help my eyes. My brother has dyslexia far worse and he has to basically read everything that is black text on a white background wearing orange tinted glasses. This is not the case with dark mode apps, and this feature has helped him immensely.
@Jan "I'm still wondering, what the problem is. I wanted a dark view, so I've installed the dark theme from the file exchange. I've written a function to control default colours in my GUIs and diagrams, so I have full control over the style."
I think you've just highlighted the problem! While you have clearly set up a good solution, you and WR are Level 10, I'm sure it would take me and others a fair bit longer to get to this point, and quite honestly, while I love Matlab, I much prefer to spend my time learning DSP algorithms than messing around setting a dark mode theme on Matlab.
That's just my opinion though ...
I can reconsider, why you do not miss a dark theme. Working on a DEC_VT50 is comparable with running Matlab on a monochrome Apple iWatch.
I am not positive, but the first display I used might have been a DEC VT-50 https://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/index.php/DEC_VT50
@Walter Roberson: I agree.
I'm still wondering, what the problem is. I wanted a dark view, so I've installed the dark theme from the file exchange. I've written a function to control defaul colors in my GUIs and diagrams, so I have full control over the style. The only remain non-dark object is the border around the command window and editor and this does not hurt me.
And if I write a tool for controlling colors, I've implemented a flower, sad gray, a fresh green and a red hot chili theme also, so I had some fun.
I've started programming with an amber-on-black monitor in the 1980th. Therefore I do not think, that a dark-theme is a modern must-have, but just a fashion which I like.
I disagree with the fundamental premise that this is a "must have" feature, except perhaps as a disability accommodation. People are welcome to reply to my Answer with evidence (not just assertion) that the feature is indeed "must have".
For example feel free to present studies showing that on display technology in non-trivial use, that it saves appreciable amounts of electricity. (The amount of MATLAB code that is run on extremely specialized mixed analog and digital radar tracking station displays is surely near zero.)
Matlab is going to loose market share without hearing the customers voice related to a dark theme. This is indeed a must-have feature and nobody understands that Mathworks is ignoring this since years.
I will make it shorter: Yes, a full dark mode also encompassing the UI and the window frames is a must-have and a standard for any free software.
It depends on you to change the theme as you can do it in setting.
because in light theme eyes can gambling
Thank you so much for the update. Dark mode would be extremely beneficial as I work with MATLAB a lot.
UPDATE March 17, 2023: Try dark mode by installing the beta of the New Desktop for MATLAB, available for R2023a. Just search for New Desktop for MATLAB in the Add-On Explorer, or download and install from here on the File Exchange.
---------------------------- Original Answer from April 1, 2022 (no joke!) --------------------
Hey, it's Michelle Hirsch here. I'm the head of product management for MATLAB. The fancy title means I'm the one you can yell at or poke with a stick, because it's my job to make sure we are doing the best we can to meet your needs with MATLAB.
I'm sorry we've been so quiet on dark mode. I want to let you all know it's not for lack of focus on it. We've been well aware of escalating demand over the past many years from so many of you. This demand really ticked up when Mac and Windows integrated dark themes at the OS level. It is taking much longer for us to enable our full product stack than I had hoped.
There are a bunch of pieces to get in place (editor, graphics, apps, icons, desktop, ...) and you are seeing incremental signs of our progress along the way. One small step was control over Live Editor background color in 22a. Dark mode support in MATLAB Online in 22a represents a major step forward (from a technology perspective) with the desktop framework and icons in place.
We currently use two different technologies to build the MATLAB Online desktop and the desktop MATLAB desktop (how many times can I say desktop!), which is why the work we did for MATLAB Online isn't helping desktop MATLAB users yet. We are working furiosuly to move everything over to the technology used in MATLAB Online. Once we do, we'll get proper dark theme support in desktop MATLAB. This is a massive project with the potential to change aspects of how you use MATLAB, so we are proceeding carefully with lots of what we call "user acceptance testing" to make sure we are building something you all will love. We plan to make previews of this technology available to more and more users as we have increasing confidence that you'll love it. I can't put a firm release date on when this will be ready for every MATLAB user. We set release targets internally, but we only release software when it meets our quality and user acceptance standards.
I hope you'll accept my apology for our silence and for the insufficient progress. I'm trying to give you a "peek behind the curtain", not to make excuses. I know we are not meeting your expectations. I want to leave you with the confidence that a whole bunch of us at MathWorks are doing everything we can to get proper dark mode support in your hands as soon as we can.
I'd love your help if you are interested and willing. We will be looking pretty soon for users who would like to test out early versions of the new MATLAB desktop based on the MATLAB Online version. If you are interested, the easiest way is probably to send me an email. You can go through my MATLAB Central profile, or just email me directly at mhirsch at mathworks dot com. We are also looking for guidance from users on how dark mode should behave in MATLAB. It's not as obvious as you might think, especially when you consider plots and apps. One simple example: if you are just working interactively, you probably expect your plots to all have a dark background and appropriately light line colors. But if you are programmatically creating and exporting a bunch of plots, you probably want them to have "normal" light background and colors. We need to get our default behaviors right and give you the ability to override them if you want somethihng different. Feel free to share opinions here or drop me a line.
Thanks for the update Abby!
@Ryan Budde - yes, starting in R2023b Update 3, the New Desktop for MATLAB Beta includes dark theme support for apps and plots! We're excited to hear what you think of this feature. It is not documented as it is in Beta development, but there are some code snippets for reference on the Beta page.
As you note, you can set a specific theme on a single figure using the Theme property, e.g. fig.Theme = 'light'. If you would like to change the automatic behavior for all figures in a MATLAB session, please use the GraphicsTheme preference as shown below. The value of this preference is 'auto' by default, and it can be configured to 'light' or 'dark'.
s = settings;
s.matlab.appearance.figure.GraphicsTheme.PersonalValue= 'light'; % PersonalValue persists after restarting MATLAB
s.matlab.appearance.figure.GraphicsTheme.TemporaryValue= 'light'; % TemporaryValue is just one MATLAB session
Please note that setting the DefaultFigureTheme will not continue to work in future releases.
Two key commands not yet documented:
First you can set the default figure theme for the session. This is critical if you are running a complex code package pre 2023a which makes a GUI / figure itself, while you yourself are in dark mode:
set(groot, "DefaultFigureTheme", "Light")
Second, a single figure's theme can be set by:
fh = figure(1)
fh.Theme = 'light'
fh.Theme = 'dark'
@Alfredo Bellido Rosas If you have R2023a, you don't have to wait, you can already install the new desktop.
I am relly waiting for this dark mode!
Excellent!
I realy dig the new graphics as well. I can't wat to see all of that in AppDesigner as well.
Thank you!
Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation.
All works flawlessly so far with the Dark Theme :)
Here are the steps I took to install the new desktop for MATLAB. You can also see this recent blog article explaining the process.
1. Open MATLAB R2023a
2. Download the FEX submission and run the newdesktopformatlab.mlpkginstall file. This prompt will appear:
3. If you press the accept button, this next prompt appears
4. To try the new desktop, press the "Close MATLAB...." button which will close MATLAB. You may or may not be prompted to confirm the exit depending on your preferences.
5. Open MATLAB R2023a again. This time you'll see a new spash screen appear while MATLAB is opening (No screen shot - I don't want to ruin the surprise)
6. After initializing, the Feedback and Stop New Desktop buttons appear toward the top, right.
Instructions also appear to guide users to the preferences panel to turn on dark mode. The preference panel will appear as follows. Select "Appearance" to see themes options to the right of the menu.
Hmmm, I’m not sure what happened. When the installation finished, you should have been promoted with a dialog asking if you wanted to enable the new desktop. Saying yes restarts MATLAB with the new desktop, and adds a button to the top of the window to switch back if necessary. The new desktop has a different preference panel which includes options for dark theme (which defaults to matching your system behavior).
Is there a button on the top of the desktop to turn on the new one? If not, you could try typing NewDesktop.start. But I’m recalling that from memory (not on my computer now) so that might be the wrong command.
I’ll check in with coworkers on Monday to see if they have other suggestions.
Thanks a lot for the follow up and update Michelle, I have installed successfully the New Desktop Add-On on R2023a but I have not find the option to switch from "regular" to "New" and dark desktop.
No new option is shown in Preferences.
Could you please clarify?
Your response is appreciated.
@Adrian Jose Wix Torres, sorry that you get headaches when looking at white screens. I just told MATLAB not to use system colors in my preferences and it looks like this now:
I haven't played around with it so I don't know if you can also turn the tabs and tool ribbon black. But even if not, maybe this will reduce your headaches.
Sorry but no. There is absolutely no excuse to be looking a white editor. In VScode, Atom. Intellij I can just download a Theme and have the editor looks nice without giving me a headache after 30 minutes of work. Now I have to take Ibuprofene to be able to finish a University assignment, so nice. There is no single fcking excuse for the IDE to be this bad.
> I do know that it is not easy to make a stable (supported) interface, however, what I intended to suggest was that instead of hard coding colors where we cannot override them, to refactor the color definition to an external file.
Yeah, but that begs the questions of "what are you going to put in that external file", and what are "the colors" and how are you going to override them? What's going to go in that external file?
Let's say there's a widget in the current Matlab Desktop GUI that is dark green, and you would like it to be light blue instead. How are you going to identify that widget in the external file, and communicate to Matlab that this widget and others like it should be blue? (Also, what is "blue"? Are we using flat RGB values here?) I'm thinking the external file would be a JSON or XML file that maps some names of classes of user interfaces elements to color definitions in some manner. But how are you going to define and then identify those classes of UI elements?
The folks working on HTML and CSS have spent the last twenty-five years working on this shizz, and they haven't quite figured it out yet. Give the MathWorks folks a little time here.
@Andrew Janke check out my new reply to the main thread, that would likely be the most unsupported and "beta testing" way to play around with what is coming up
@Andrew Janke I do know that it is not easy to make a stable (supported) interface, however, what I intended to suggest was that instead of hard coding colors where we cannot override them, to refactor the color definition to an external file.
I would not care if it would be completely unsupported or whatever necessary, but it would be nice to have that option, no matter how much/litte it could break the usefullness of the program if the end user messed up the file.
> "the product manager says that it is a big technology rewrite of the entire desktop environment" - this means, that the current desktop manager was written without considering such basic modifications.
Yep. The current Matlab desktop environment's architecture was written like 20 years ago, when themability/skinnability was a thing for WinAmp users, not for developers or text editor users, and "Dark Mode" was not even a thing.
> desktop = com.mathworks.mde.desk.MLDesktop.getInstance;
You are banging on undocumented Matlab internals here, and what you're getting is specific to the old-style Java Swing implementation of the Matlab Desktop environment. I'm pretty sure that stuff was never intended to be exposed to Matlab end users, and was certainly not designed for extensibility. Head on over to Yair's site if you want to work with this specific stuff.
My personal hope is that, in the future, Matlab exposes and supports some document, supported ways for users to interact with and customize the Matlab desktop environment. But this ain't that.
I have also been somewhat disappointed by the communication from MathWorks on this topic, since there's been so much "grassroots" demand for it, and it's a feature that everybody trendy cares about these days. (But not super surprised by it, since MW has never been great on communication for upcoming stuff in the first place. ;) ) It's nice to see actual grassroots/end-user demand for stuff in Matlab, and it would be nice to see MW responding directly to that, as opposed to manager/purchaser/decisionmaker demand.
I am not disappointed by the actual delivery schedule for this feature in Matlab. I suspect that many of the people being impatient about it have not themselves worked on a large multi-platform GUI app like Matlab, and may be grossly underestimating the amount of labor, cost, and complexity involved here.
I have tried the early-preview stuff in Matlab Online, and this looks interesting. I would like to be in on any previews or beta-testing of this stuff, or engineering discussions about how to design it. Y'all know where to find me.
One thing y'all should understand is that Michelle is not saying that they're rewriting the whole desktop GUI architecture here just in order to support Dark Mode. It's that MW has been re-doing the whole Matlab GUI architecture for other reasons, and for an app the size of Matlab, that's kinda like a decade-long effort. The interest and pressure for Dark Mode has been mostly coming in while that transition is already well under way. So it would be a waste to invest the effort in to making Dark Mode work in the old GUI way, when the old GUI way is basically going to be thrown away soon. Better focus all efforts on making it work well under the new GUI way. (Also, the old GUI way is Java Swing, and theming is a bit of a PITA there. Because that's 90's tech, from before people cared about theming so much.)
I think there's a couple things going on in this thread:
- Matlab supporting just Light Mode/Dark Mode variants, maybe respecting the OS's "current light/dark preference" state.
- Matlab supporting multiple or user-definable color schemes/themes/controls.
Item 2 is substantially more complex and difficult than item 1. For item 1, MW only has to come up with alternate dark-mode color and asset definitions for all the GUI items used for Matlab; that's only about the same amount of work as picking all the colors and rendering the assets for the original GUI. Plus a mechanism to do a simple A/B switch, and maybe linking that in to the global "dark/light" state that recent OSes expose. That can all be done with internal code.
(But Item 1 is still substantially more complex than just writing an app with one set of colors.)
If you want to do item 2 (supporting user-definable color themes) then you need to do things like defining a taxonomy of identifiers for all the colorizable elements in the entire Matlab GUI interface, choosing how colors are defined and how those are mapped to renderings in different OSes or presentation contexts, defining a file format for serializations of those definitions, deciding how they should be managed/imported/exported (like, on an installation/user/session/organization basis), and so on. This support of theming support is effectively part of the public, external interface to Matlab once it's introduced.
And then, MathWorks takes a long view on things, and has a strong commitment to back-compatibility. So MW kinda has to get this all right the first time, and then expect to support it for ten or twenty years.
So I think some of y'all, especially if you haven't personally worked on a large multiplatform GUI app like Matlab, and especially if you're coming from a web-dev background, maybe be substantially underestimating just how much work is involved in something like this.
I really like @Nicolai Lamp's idea of defining a JSON or XML format for saving color definitions in. That would support dark/light mode switching, and also support user-customizable themes. But I 100% disagree that that is the "simple" way of implementing it: defining a file format for those color definitions means adding a new public interface to Matlab, and implies defining a whole taxonomy of colorizable elements, with stable external identifiers, for every element of the entire Matlab application's GUI. That is a full engineer-year of work easy, and I'd bet that in practice it's several multiples of that.
(This is speaking as someone who's done rich-client GUI programming and syntax-highlighting definitions for various programming definitions. Defining just a decent syntax-highlighting theme is a fair amount of work, for a language that has a syntax definition, in an editor that supports theming. Defining that themeable syntax definition is more work, given an editor that supports theming. And what we're asking for here is more than all of that: we're asking Matlab to not just define a theme, or a themeable syntax definition, but to build themeability support into not just an editor, but an entire rich GUI app.)
I seriously hope that's where we end up! It would be great to have a themeable Matlab that provides default Light and Dark themes, and allows users to define or import their own themes. I can't wait to run Matlab in Beyonce Mode or Solarized Light. But I totally get it if they're not there yet.
(Sorry if I sound like a MathWorks apologist here! I just get grumpy when people want stuff that actually takes a lot of work to implement and don't appreciate the complexities involved.)
@Walter Roberson is right - we are running a limited beta of the new desktop with dark mode; it's not generally available in the prerelease. Email me if you'd like a link to sign up.
@Jan - There's really not a coupling beyond the long list of methods for controlling the desktop window and the challenge/cost of adding dark mode support. It might be that it's harder to add robust dark mode support in the current desktop than in the new desktop, but I'm not sure. It's really a question of how to best utilize limited development resources, as we focus our energy on getting the new desktop out as quickly as we can to release all of the new capabilities including dark mode.
"the product manager says that it is a big technology rewrite of the entire desktop environment" - this means, that the current desktop manager was written without considering such basic modifications. When I see this:
desktop = com.mathworks.mde.desk.MLDesktop.getInstance;
mainFrame = desktop.getMainFrame;
methods(mainFrame)
I'm starting to frighten. This looks like an overkill causes by an exploded complexity. This seems to be the explanation, why such a simple job like changing the color scheme becomes technological rewrite.
I've seen this trend to a massiv increase of complexity in multiple toolbox functions of Matlab. If implementing a color scheme requires substantial changes, it is time for an expensive refactoring of the window maneger.
So the product manager says that it is a big technology rewrite of the entire desktop environment, and that as work progresses there will be trials and plenty of consultations to be sure to get the rewrite correct.
And Mathworks Support says "It's not ready for preview yet and we don't know when it will be ready."
I do not see any contradiction. It is a big job, the phased trials have not taken place yet, it is not clear how long it is going to take. For example, when the first modified version becomes available for user testing, it could be the case that users say that the new version is too ugly, too slow, crashes a lot on some operating systems, or whatever: Mathworks is not going to provide a firm release date when there is the possibility that significant rework might be needed after user feedback.
Can Mathworks promise at this point that it will release the feature? I would not promise if I were them. It is a big project, which means expensive, and economics is notoriously difficult to forecast... and politics is very strange these days. A company might fully intend to make something available, but that does not mean that definitely it will be able to make it available.
The rewrite of the desktop is part of a long term strategy to get out of Java for all Mathworks-provided user interface and graphics. The App Designer tools is part of that strategy. uifigure and uiaxes are not java based. Companies are transitioning to more HTML 5 web-based interfaces. This is partly a reaction to Oracle requiring per-desktop paid Runtime licenses for Java (if I recall the fine print correctly, each virtual desktop is considered to require its own license.) Thus the rewrite is part of a key initiative that has been underway for years. But that does not mean that Mathworks can promise that the feature will definitely be available.
And why then this statement from Mathwork support as of 10. June 2022 in case numer 05571493 ?
..."I have been informed that, as of now, the option of a dark mode is not available in the Prerelease and there is currently no ETA on when and if a Dark Mode will become available."
What shall I believe now ?
It is greatly appreciated that the LiveEditor now (2022a) finally has a dark mode. For me, this dissuaded me - at the very last minute - to after decades finally drop Matlab and migrate all my work to Python, which I was ready to do soon. Python's notebooks have natively supported dark mode for a long time. v2022a for me means postponing this step by a few more years at least, hopefully :-)
Still, elements of the old interface remain in Matlab, as Michelle says. Most annoyingly for me, they appear in the documentation window that opens upon pressing F1 for a given function. That one is so old school that I imagine nothing short of a complete makeover would make it support dark mode. Until then, I sadly rely on my browser to access all Matlab documentation.
Dear Michelle,
thank you very very much for your detailed and honest reply. We don't need to go into the details, as it has been already done. Just to remind that we all know how much difficult such a task would be for Mathworks, albeit being IMHO necessary. My perplexities (as well as for other users) were not just for the absence currently of a dark theme, but rather for the silence that there has been from Mathworks so far on this topic. But with your answer you confirm that this is on the to-do list, and we all appreciate this really a lot.
Thanks for your amazing work!
Thank you for your time addressing the silence!
IMO it would make sense to start out with the "simple" implementation of putting all color definitions into a color definition file in the matlab install directory or something similar, it could be .json .xml or perhaps even a .mat file for all I care.
Then move ALL color definitions and references you have throughout the application to that location so technical users / developers can make matlab scripts to modify that/those files and possibly have a simple way of switching between 2-3 different color files.
Then it would be possible to have traditional white as normally defined by Mathworks, Darkmode for daily development, and one or more color profiles for defining what you want to use as a middle ground in case you want accurate display of what is going to be printed/generated in reports and such.
The way Visual Studio Code is doing it works pretty well, overwrite settings in one .json, though I personally don't mind if we just do the custom edits directly in a file and then need to relaunch Matlab.
Some Matlab users are app developers themselves, so it doesn't matter if the functionality will be hacky at first, just introduce some form of interface to do something like this and I am certain that the community will happily help you make it easier to use pre-defined colorschemes for less tech savy users, just like the schemer script does with over 100k commmunity downloads.
All we ask for is some way to introduce this, in a deeper level than what your current color setting functionality allows.
After this is made possible, by all means, go and refactor community tools into Matlab for a nice integration
I disagree with the premises expressed. I use my computer and phone many hours per day, but dark mode is hard on my eyes, making my eyes work harder against astigmatism.
I don't know if there is anyone left still using a CRT display. LCD do not use more power for brighter colors.
In my opinion, Dark Theme is much more a fad preference than a "need". But...
- sure, some people do in fact prefer it; and
- people do frequently buy based on fads; and
- lack of dark theme is being used as an excuse by anti-MATLAB people, so take away the excuse to reduce their leverage.
Anti-MATLAB people? Give me a break smh.
> but when it comes to code editors, I would agree that the vast majority of users prefer dark themes.
I would agree that the vast majority of code editor users who like to talk online about light theme/dark theme support do prefer dark theme. But I dunno if that generalizes to "the vast majority of users". If you like light theme, which is the default, why would you spend your time going online and talking about dark theme support?
Mr. Zito may have overstated the pervasiveness of dark mode across all operating systems and all GUI applications, but when it comes to code editors, I would agree that the vast majority of users prefer dark themes. Just look at the install statistics for two of the most popular editors:
The top 20 vim themes are all dark.
The top 10 vs code theme extensions all include a dark mode, and of them, only one theme is light by default.
I don't see this as a fad. I think dark syntax highlighting color themes are superior in code editing applications because for whatever reason, they tend to do a better job of making code more readable.
Personally, I prefer a light OS theme and a light themed web browsing experience. But when it comes to code editing, I've come to see dark themes as less of a luxury and more of an essential feature, to the point where I become irritated when an IDE locks me into a light theme.
Dark Mode is a need, not a preference. I was diagnosed with cataracts. I can't see anything on a white background, and I can't do my work effectively. I am using MATLAB online so that I can survive, but we hope that product managers and their teams make light theme, dark theme, and custom theme.
In this case, the person will choose their preferred theme that fits their needs.
Custom theme where the users can make their choices of colors. For example, Windows 10 provides several themes and allows users to make custom ones. I appreciate all the great work Mathworks has done, and I hope to see the dark theme alive soon. I am big on accessibility and have no problem with being part of testing and providing my feedback.
I only speak for myself. As I have gotten older (I'm 65) my vision has declined in such a way that looking at dark text against a bright white background not only makes it difficult to see the text, but also it actually hurts. As they have become available in various programs, I have switched to dark modes with white text on a black backgrounds. They are much easier for me to see and they don't hurt. I am glad that the Mathworks is working on providing such a color scheme. I'll use it as soon as it is availabe.
"Nobody is asking for dark mode because of CRT"
... Not that I "asked" for it, but I developed my own workarounds while I was still running CRT's. For the response time and uniformity alone, I'd still be running glass if I could get replacement cathode drivers for them.
"I never heard anyone having problems with dark mode"
Plenty of people with cataracts and MD have the exact opposite preference. That's why windows has always had two awful hi-contrast accessibility themes instead of just a dark one. In my opinion, a singular inflexible "dark mode" is likely as much a problem as the standard theme if it can't be edited. I've seen too many ridiculous low-contrast and ultra-high-contrast flat dark themes to think that someone can't come up with a completely unreadable "dark mode" for MATLAB as well.
I totally disagree.
- Dark mode is an indispensable requirement for my eyes working in front of a 50' screen.
- The older you get the more you will probably observe astigmatism and that white light is dazzling your eyes and nasty.
- Nobody is asking for dark mode because of CRT. Don't presume people using old technology.
- The term "anti-MATLAB" people is an inappropriate disparagement and inobjective.
- There are not just some people requiring a dark mode - it is the vast majority.
- Emitting bright light is emitting energy regardless of display technology while power consumption is for sure not the reason for people requiring dark mode.
- I never heard anyone having problems with dark mode
I was really surpised at how different people have such opposing contrast preferences when they have cataracts. Then again, there are different types of cataracts and corneal defects that may be contributing, so I guess the seemingly subtle physical differences can have quite unsubtle impacts on perception.
Less light would be of significant benefit to my eyes as well.
Those are good points. My personal eye problems have different perception results than you report, but you are right that some people need a lot less light.
My understanding is that people have different reactions and people work in different surroundings, but in this room, with my eyes and cataracts, any bright regions in the field of view basically bleed out and obscure everything around them. The goal then is to make sure that the only positive features in the UI are objects of interest -- the text, the buttons, etc. If the UI is predominantly light, all it does is pollute the field of vision with a diffuse haze, obscuring the actual things that need to be seen. It's the same reason I wear a hat to keep room lights out of my peripheral vision. Either I find a way to make it dark, or I have to spend all day squinting hopelessly.
For me, it's not anything about fashion or vanity. Nobody else sees my computer. In theory, I'd want a themeable MATLAB, but I really can't care since it's never been an option before and I already have a workaround.
If anything, the introduction of a dark theme sounds like a concession to get people to accept MATLAB-Online-on-the-desktop. I'll pass. With limited system resources and a linux environment, I don't think I even have the option, but I'll pass.
A dark theme saves power on OLED screens only. I assume, that most computers run Matlab with LCD screens, which do not profit from a dark mode. So the saving of energy is no hard argument.
I'm using a dark mode of Windws and let Scott C. Lowe's Schemer define dark colors for the command window and editor. My figures for diagrams and GUIs are controlled by a self-developped tool to manage colors, so the background and colormap can be chosen freely for all of my applications. This works since Matlab 6.5 reliably.
I do not have the need for any further tools to modify the darkness of Matlab. There are some light boxes e.g. in Matlab's preferences, but I do not use them in the daily work, so this does not bother me.
its quite simple, we just want dark mode because we think it is better to look at
You don't have to look into a white screen. Matlab Schemer already allows you to turn most of the screen dark. So you already have a solution that gets you most of the way. It doesn't work on the documentation, but you can use your system browser, which you can customize as well.
I'm not denying some people need a darker screen for medical reasons, but saying a true dark mode is required is simply an exageration. Unless even a white menu bar already causes you migraines, in which case you have my sympathies.
For me its medical, and secondarily power consumption (OLED monitor be thirsty). Stairing into a bright white screen causes me both eyestrain and migraines.
At least you admit the problem is aestetics, not medical. Of course schemer is not a perfect solution, but if your problem is medical there is a reasonable fix. Not perfect, but nobody claimed that to be the case.
Note: what I am going to say is something with a purely aesthetical motivation, not functional, but I am ready to bet even more than 2 cents that it would hold for maaaany other people in addition to me.
Because schemer is a fist in the eyes. Having only few windows black (non even a scalable dark or grey, but total black) while the rest of the interface is bright is absolutely horrible to see. No harmony whatsoever.
This is not for discrediting schemer (and I am aware that Mathworks is working on it). It's just to answer why for me schemer is not by any means a valid alternative to a dark mode.
You can get most of the way there with schemer. I don't get why people are being so dramatic. If you have a good reason (or if you just want to), you can already set 95% of the area to white on black.
They are working on it and there is a solution that will get you most of the way there.
This discussion on energy savings, LCD, OLED, etc is irrelevant. Dark mode is a highly desired feature. Period. Trying to argue about it doesn't change that. Matlab is the last program on my computer which doesn't have some form of dark mode. I hate using matlab at night because it hurts my eyes, and clearly I'm not the only one.
It might use more power to display a dark-on-light UI, but the benefit is that your eyes will get fatigued faster when staring into a rectangular light bulb, so you'll use it for less time! Secret energy saving strategy? You decide.
Yes, LCDs tend to use more when it is dark... but my OLED monitor chugs 150+ watts when it displays Matlab at full brightness with a white background (whereas VS code uses only like 22 watts with its dark background
Apple currently uses two different display technologies. For some of their products such as iPhone, they use OLED, currently "Super XDR" branded. But for the MacBook Pro M1 they used LCD based technology, currently "Liquid XDR" branded. And LCD uses more energy for dark pixels, as it has to actively block the back light.
OLED does handle black by turning off the pixel. But the OLED layer is more expensive than alternatives, and does not last as well. You thus need to start asking questions about lifetime costs: if a display mechanism costs notably more to make but has the potential to save a small amount of electricity, is it really the best choice? https://www.techradar.com/news/what-is-oled
For example QLED televisions use a monochrome backlight together with a filtering layer that does frequency conversion. Black is not handled as the absence of produced light: black is handled by filtering out the backlight.
@M Herper Both of your claims are too strongly worded for the amount of evidence you provide.
Light is indeed energy. However, some display technologies work by having some form of white backlight, blocking colors in different intensities to generate the required image. Such technologies may even require more power to display black, as the absorb light has to go somewhere. Light is energy, and effectively dissipating that energy can sometimes cost energy.
There is no peer reviewed evidence I'm aware of that a darker screen will cause less/no damage to normal healthy eyes. There are some eye conditions that may be aleviated or aggravated by a lighter or darker screen, but I doubt the blanket statement you wrote actually holds water.
I personally prefer using dark modes for many of my often-used programs (especially in the evening). My personal opinion is just that: an opinion. Don't proclaim yours to be fact. That will only detract from your point. If you want to ensure something happens, you need to make sure you're convincing.
dark theme saves energy on every screen as light is energy. More importantly is saves our eyes.
It actually doesn't collide with Octave (for now (i.e. 4.4-6.3)), so that is good news. This will indeed simplify that function. Thank you for sharing this solution.
I have a very similar experience.
Figures and plots are produced for the benefit of not-me as well, so making those dark as well creates problems on their end.
For the most part, Schemer does all I need. Now I just need the debugging high-light color to be exposed as well. I don't get why Schemer woudn't be enough, for the exact same reasons: I hardly ever need the windows that I can't set to dark. Since I'm forced to work with Word on my second screen anyway, it really doesn't matter that much for my practical use.
Since a dark mode was introduced in Online, I expect more color options (or a global dark mode) to be around the corner, maybe 1 or 2 releases. Given that the editor is WAY more than a simple Notepad++ window with a side-bar, I understand any changes are non-trivial.
I can set all parameters I need with a simple post-install script.
Is a dark theme different from just setting the color preferences to black background and white text?
It seems like a small difference. At the very least, the concerns of energy and eye health should be mostly addressed with a black background.
Honestly yes... dark theme means a global dark theme, so including the totality of the GUI (windows, menu etc.).
As I said, a good example might be how a dark theme is implemented in Spyder:
As of release R2022a you can select a dark or light theme in MATLAB Online. See the Release Notes for more information.
I think any claim that a "vast majority" wants something is a claim that requires evidence (and not just strongly held assertions.)
R2022b is not too far away. You can check whether you're elligble for the R2022b pre-release. I expect more theme-related options in there.
(I don't use pre-releases, exactly for this reason: if I were using it, I would be under NDA whether or not such a change was present).
For me, Schemer provides enough options, so any more options are nice-to-haves.
Come on Mathworks, get your job done and implement a dark mode in the desktop version. A vast majority is hungry for that.
While they're not recommended, if you want to complement the colors of figure backgrounds you could use the whitebg function and/or the colordef function.
6.5 still has a grey background. I think that switched to the current shade with HG2. Maybe it was darker still before that, but I don't have a copy of any version that old.
@David Goodmanson: I think the switch from default black to bright figure background was between version 4.2 and 5.0
Hi Walter,
Per the effects you mentioned it generally made more sense and was easier on equipment to strongly illuminate perhaps 10% of the screen rather than 90%. But I was mostly trying to make the point that dark screens have been around for decades already. I can't remember about the editor, but early-version Matlab plots had a black background, is that not true?
Extended bright periods and extended dark periods are both relatively easy for electron beams; controlled sharp transitions are the problem. Unless, that is, you are talking about the associated problem of phosphor "burn-in", or about issues about heating the shadow masks.
Hi Walter,
I guess we are getting thinner on the ground with people who remember when every monitor had a 'dark theme'. Only it wasn't by sophisticated with-it choice, it was by electron beam necessity.
In my opinion, dark theme is being used as a McGuffin https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin -- an object of little inherent worth that is used to provide motivation for conflict.
Not having dark themes in the REAL desktop version is a joke after all this time.
We can do many workarounds, like moving our workflow out of matlab and working with M files in VS Code.
Or go to another extreme and invert screen colors using OS level accessibility color filter.
But all this SHOULD really not be necessary in 2022.
All GUI element colors have to be defined somewhere anyway, why not make that array abailable to manipulate manually?
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